Beyond the Lease

Episode 2
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Noelle: [00:00:00] But these topics are very sensitive. Animals, disabilities, health information. It can get

Victoria: very emotional. It's three animals. So they forged three different letters or three different animals, three different forms to verify those forged letters. All these people who see

Noelle: eye catching ad that are like, oh, I don't, I don't wanna pay it.

Yeah. So let me just get this ESA

Victoria: letter speaking with the health professionals team. Yeah. They let us know. He definitely didn't write this. He's not seeing any patients right now. Oh really? Yeah. Yes. He's, he is been out of town.

Marven: Welcome back to The Beyond the Lease podcast. My name's Marvin. I'm here with some special guests today from our pet policy to talk about the behind the scenes side of ESA and service animal verification, kinda the process in the day-to-day life of our company and kind of seeing behind the scenes of what we're doing.

So I'm here with Noelle and Victoria. They're from our customer support team, our operations team, and they're gonna kinda share a little bit about the process of what we do on a day-to-day basis. Hello guys.

Victoria: Hi. Thanks for having us. [00:01:00] Yeah, of course. Yeah, happy to be here.

Marven: Try to break the ice a little bit.

I know it's, it's kind of weird being sat down and being in front all the time for us. We're the sales guys. We're always talking to property managers, and you guys are kind of on the behind the scenes, training them on our processes and going through the ropes of their day-to-day of their addendums, their rules, their animal complaints, things like that.

Would love to hear a little bit more about what you guys see on a day-to-day process, maybe. Start with you, Victoria. You're the ones onboarding these guys and kind of looking deeper into just what, what, how to build out animal addendums, how to build out rules with animals and how to enforce those. What do you see on a day-to-day basis that property managers are probably struggling with the most right now?

Is it. Within the scope of animals, if that makes sense. You see a lot of property managers running into it being really time consuming, or is it something that they just don't know how to handle? What do you spend most of your time doing when you are on these training calls? Bringing people on our platform.

Victoria: Yeah, so [00:02:00] most of my day is taken up by, you know, meeting with property managers who have just signed contracts with our PET policy. They're looking to get started with our services. Maybe they're brand new to animal management, maybe they've used a different software in the past. Yeah. And so they wanna know how we work and what we're all about.

And so I am usually just reviewing their animal rules, getting an understanding of are they a single family operator? Yep. Are they multifamily? And because there are some nuances there,

Marven: what are some of those you, what are the main differences that you see? Single family, multifamily.

Victoria: So really what I'm noticing is that.

With multifamily, it seems like the animal rules are really strict. Right? You know, it's a large apartment complex. Yep. You wanna have the same rules for everyone. Yep. Whereas single family operators, it seems like there might be a little bit more leniency with their animal rules, maybe. According to the unit.

If it's a smaller studio, probably not gonna have as many animals. If it's maybe a two bedroom house with a backyard, you could probably have a couple of dogs in there. So it really just varies. Mm-hmm. But I'm [00:03:00] spending my time getting them all set up on our services. And to your point about questions that I'm seeing, I think a lot of them just don't necessarily have the time to be.

Managing all of this animal information. They can't be hounding their tenants about getting this information and they just want to be able to pass that off to someone who not only can do it for them, but has the knowledge and knows the rules, and is able to handle those accommodations with ESAs and service animals.

Yeah,

Marven: that makes sense and that's awesome. Noel, kind of bringing you into this, the fold here, you're on the operation side of things. Like bring us kind of give a rundown as what does that mean within our company? What is your day-to-day focus? And how are you kind of contributing to stay ahead of the curve or just continuing to innovate within the space to make sure that we're just getting better and better in our company?

Noelle: Yeah, great question. So, a lot of my time is spent helping manage our team and make sure that they are completely well-versed in all of our processes. All of our team members are super well versed in hud. Yep. They [00:04:00] receive a lot of training when it comes to fair housing. Housing and urban development since that's what we base our process off for reasonable accommodation requests.

So constantly updating that training and making sure everyone is on the same page. Yeah. Because then in turn, that creates just a streamlined process and we are handling all reasonable accommodation requests the exact same way.

Marven: Yeah.

Noelle: And we are making sure we're constantly improving our process with that, to continue decreasing verification times and really make the process as streamlined, streamline, and as simple as possible to, of course, help the tenants get their reasonable accommodation requests verified as quickly as possible.

Yeah. And that way we can get answers to our, our customers, our property managers regarding their, their residents and their applicants who have ESAs and service animals.

Marven: That's great. Yeah. This has been something that, when. When Alex and I who you saw in a former episode, when we're at all these trade shows, it seems like the number one thing that we get asked about is how, how [00:05:00] long does it take for us to review these documents?

How, how quickly can we get live on the platform? It seems like time is like the number one factor within property management, and I think a lot of the times our customers and people who have interacted with us at shows, they get to see us on the front end a lot of times, but it's always good to be able to get a look in the back end to know that.

Everything we're doing in our company is being handled, streamlined and efficiently as possible. So wanted to kind of talk about you guys are, have, both have been in the customer service role before, especially within our company. This is something we pride ourselves a lot, is that any of our customers can get in touch with somebody via email or for a phone call.

It's a huge part of our day-to-day interactions with our customers. And so I'm curious for either you guys can answer the question when it comes to. How we communicate to residents. I know this is always a question that we get faced with on the sales side of things, is we don't really wanna be rude to customers about, or residents or applicants about the status of their [00:06:00] animal.

We wanna make sure that documentation is legitimate, but on the other hand, we don't want to, we don't want our residents coming to us super angry, like, I can't bring my dog on, I can't do this, et cetera, et cetera. What are, what are things that you guys do or train other people and customer support to do to make sure that we are handling conflict resolution and, and.

Digressing, a heated situation that could be pets. Pets are, in some people's eyes are like the closest thing. They're, they're part of their family. Right? Totally. How do you guys communicate that?

Victoria: Yeah, I mean, both of us started out in customer service before we are, we were in our current roles that we're in now, and we have that firsthand experience.

Yeah, and I think something that's really special about our pet policy is that most, if not. All of our team members have animals of their own. Mm-hmm. And so we have that firsthand understanding that our animals are like our babies. Yeah. Or our siblings. There is that f familial aspect to it. So we do really care.

We can definitely empathize that that is a major part of our lives. Yeah. And. We are all [00:07:00] very kind and caring people, and we always instill that as a major value with the team. And so we really just en encourage the team to listen to the residents, listen to their concerns, and just do our best to present the facts in a kind way.

Yeah. And try to just deescalate and, and show the residents what those possible next steps are, while also holding true and holding firm to the rules, the rules that we have to uphold for our customers. And so that's the, that that's the main goal there.

Marven: Yeah. No, that's a great answer. Is anything you have to add?

Noelle: Oh yeah. I was just going to say, I think it's, it's really important and I think it helps hit home for our team members when we remind them that every everyone's situation's different. Yeah. And we're going to hear a number of things while on the phone or conversing via email with tenants. But the important thing is that we do stay consistent throughout.

Handle all requests the same, go to the same extent to verification because it's really important that we are treating everyone fairly and treating everyone the same. Not giving anyone [00:08:00] special treatment or cut the line or anything like that. Mm-hmm. Just again, just to avoid discrimination in any way, because that is kinda the topic that we're dealing with.

And these topics are very sensitive. Yeah. Animals, disabilities, health information, it can get very emotional. Yeah. And emotions will be heightened on the. Phone or via email. But our team has really gotten really good at just hearing the tenants out and above all else, at least helping to educate them on reasonable accommodation requests.

Mm-hmm. And truly help them get documentation that is reliable. Yeah. If that's possible. And reminding them if they can't do that at this time, the door never closed. Right. They're always welcome to provide further documentation and I think that's at least helpful at the end of the day if we can't give the exact answer that they're looking for.

Marven: Yeah. No, that's great. And I think that. That gives the extra, like when people, a lot of the times are, we're asked about how we're able to take liability for these decisions. We come to, and this is why I think Noelle just hit it on the head, that if we streamline the process and we do the [00:09:00] same thing with every single time, every single scenario where an assistance animal request is coming through, it gives us the ability to actually.

Feel confident in our decisions every time we do it, just because we're refining that, that space. So I would love to walk through the process. You guys know this better than I do when, when an assistance animal request comes in. To one of our customers. How does this process look like today? What do you guys do?

And in this case scenario, say I'm the one submitting it, I just went through an online survey. I saw an ad on Facebook, and I clicked the ad. I paid 75 bucks, took a little survey, and I got my ESA letter. Now I put it in, in my application to my apartment. What? What happens next?

Noelle: Great question. So we would see that letter come through and our team members would review it and kind of look for some, some key indicators there that it may have been purchased online.

We have a massive database of all sorts of letters that have been purchased from these [00:10:00] websites. All sorts of these websites. The list is extensive, but so is our database and our knowledge of, of how these letters look and they're formatting and so it's. It's usually pretty clear to us when, when that is the case.

Mm-hmm. And so if the letter is identified as such, we will start by just reaching out to the resident because at that point, all we know is that the documentation is likely unreliable. And so we, we can't move forward with unreliable documentation. Yeah. Um, and so if it, if it meets those hud. Criteria of unreliable documentation.

We're not going to further along in the verification processes at that point. Yeah. So we'll reach out to the resident or applicant and kind of communicate how the letter appears and explain why HUD says that this type of documentation is unreliable. Mm-hmm. Uh, the resident. Welcome to clarify if we have any misunderstandings.

Yep. Or quite often they'll just have questions after we, we reach out and unfortunately so many residents don't realize that [00:11:00] that type of documentation is unreliable. Mm-hmm. Which is kind of the toughest part is right when they're frustrated, not only realizing that they're. Their letter's not gonna work.

They're gonna have to get something else. But also they did just pay all that money for it to give this letter. And so it can be really frustrating to hear and we completely understand that. That's why we wanna have an open and honest conversation. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And kind of about, about our findings and, and communicate with them and, and try to see if there are other avenues or if they have that clarification to provide.

Mm-hmm. Um, we'll move, move forward from there.

Marven: No, that's awesome. What are some like fast tips? Or fast outliers that you guys usually see. Like if I set that letter in today and, and I've seen a few of them, but you guys would be, give better language to this. Mm-hmm. If you click on a letter and it's one of the most common letters you see all the time, what is it including for you to be like, oh, I know that I've seen this letter before, or I'm really confident that I've seen a letter like this before.

What are the kinda those key pointers for you guys?

Victoria: Right. Yeah. And we, we definitely have quite a few letters on file. Yeah. That we [00:12:00] are matching. Like Noelle said, pretty much identically, it's word for word in a lot of ways, word for word. But some of the heavy hitters are, you might see an e es a verification number.

Mm-hmm. And it's a long string of digits. Or maybe it's an ESA registration number. Yeah. And there's no way to register, certify an ESA on a state or federal ible. So we know that those numbers are basically meaningless. Yeah. A primary care provider or a therapist who has a working relationship with their patient is very likely not going to be coming up with some random number to put on their letter.

That's usually from a website that's selling this type of documentation. We have also noticed that most oftentimes the letters from websites are so incredibly long, they will usually be five or six paragraphs. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Full of jargon. And oftentimes the text matches identically to hundreds and hundreds of other letters that we've seen, and the only differentiator is the patient's name [00:13:00] and their animal's name, whereas.

More reliable letters that are from someone who is licensed and is working with their patient. Usually these letters are pretty short and direct. They're to the point, yeah, so and so is my patient. They have a disability related need for this animal. Please accommodate this request. Yeah. If you have any questions, let me know.

Done. Yeah. Right. Really quick and easy. Right. Not full of all this jargon. So

Marven: nice. Yeah. When you guys are reaching out to some of these health professionals on the customer service side. To verify the validity of these documents when it comes to asking them a series of questions, whatever it may be, to the health professional side.

Mm-hmm. Uh, do you find, what's the biggest struggle for you guys there? Obviously there's tons of websites where a resident can go on and like Noelle said, if I was just the normal Joe Schmoe and I'm Googling ESA letter. I'm gonna be inundated with five to 10 websites mm-hmm. On the top that are telling me this is how you get your SA letter.

Mm-hmm. What is the headache that you [00:14:00] guys are going through? Is, is it really, is it easy or is it hard to get that, that verification from a health professional who wrote these letters from an online source, is that something that you guys see as a struggle or is it something that's pretty easy for you guys to get in touch with to get that, any answers from them?

Does that make sense? Yeah, no, I,

Noelle: I see what you're getting at. And so the thing is kind of. As I said earlier, we usually wouldn't be reaching out to these health professionals because our assumption is that the documentation is, is unreliable. Got it. Mm-hmm. And that's why we wouldn't just reach out to them right off the bat for verification.

Yep. But like I said, if the resident truly feels that they had a different experience and that we reached our conclusion and error. Maybe, maybe they are honest and upfront and say, I did use this website. Sure. Right. But their claims are that the evaluation process and the session that they had with the provider was, was lengthy.

Yeah. And it was completely thorough to, to make a, a disability evaluation. Got it. In those cases, it's, it's not quite hitting [00:15:00] those HUD criteria to be unreliable. And so at that time, we would then reach out to the health professional just for verification like we would with any letter that was not purchased online.

Got it. So when, when we do get to that point, when those cases, since tenants will come to us and, and communicate that no, their, their letter letter is reliable. Yeah. It was not obtained from this website or it was not just a super brief process. When we reach out, one of the biggest struggles that we, we run into is that most of these health.

Professionals don't have verified contact information. Mm-hmm. Uh, which does make it particularly hard to reach them. Mm-hmm. Or if we are able to reach them, there's really no way of, of confirming who's on the other end of the phone call. Right. Who's on the other end of this Gmail address That's, that's not verified.

When we Google search the phone number or the email, you get the, the icon who's, who's fishing Yeah. The, the no results. Right. Right. And so. It's odd that for a licensed health doctor's office, professional health professional, yeah. That they would've no, no [00:16:00] contact information. Mm-hmm. With a simple Google search, it pulls up their name, their license information.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, rarely the case when we are dealing with letters that are not purchased online. It's usually very, very simple and straightforward to verify with those providers. So I'd say that's, that's one of the common issues and struggles we run into with these. Mm-hmm.

Marven: It's quite the headache though, like mm-hmm.

If I was a property manager and I'm running. Maintenance, vacancies, repairs.

Victoria: Yeah.

Marven: And animals. And I get the CSA letter and, and I, I'm like, okay, I can't, I, my owners don't wanna pet in this unit. Mm-hmm. And. I got this letter saying that this is an ESA dog. It looks like it's, it looks like something I've received before.

I know in a lot of ways that this looks like something that looks, that's been purchased online. I've stopped by the, our pet policy booth. I've seen the fake letters. This looks just like it. Mm-hmm. That could be quite the headache to try to go through the process of trying to verify if it's legit or not, so it makes sense.

While I think a lot of times. When we're talking to, to property management companies who have no process in place. Mm-hmm. [00:17:00] It's literally because of what you guys just explained about mm-hmm. How lengthy this process can go mm-hmm. And how much correct language you have to use and how much not correct language there is out there to use.

And, and you can get yourself into trouble a lot of times. And so I think this just kinda shows the value of what we're doing. Mm-hmm. On a day-to-day basis. It's really taking. Time off of and, and stress off of the shoulders of our customers. And I, and I know that you guys are the ones who get, usually get that feedback back from those who are onboarding and those who are working with us when they get up and running, it seems like there's pretty positive feedback because they don't have to handle these things anymore.

So it's. Great to see what you guys are doing, and I, I, I, myself, am super honored to be working with you guys and knowing that our company's in good hands and on, on the back end of things while we're trying to sell this to everybody else. So, one thing before we go today, wanted to see if you guys have any funny stories from maybe a fake health professional or, uh, a situation that you guys had on a call or something like that.

That was pretty funny. Anything come to mind? [00:18:00]

Victoria: I mean, we've definitely heard our fair share of pretty out there. Sure. Situations. And I think one that comes to mind, maybe it's funny, I think in my opinion, it's maybe just more crazy more than anything else, is we had one resident who had multiple assistant animals or ESAs.

Yep. I think there were three total, I think. Yeah. And things were not going the way that they wanted. They had unreliable documentation. The story kept changing. Got it. First, all three are for this resident. Now only one is for this resident. The other two are for the other people in the unit. Right. The story's just not aligning.

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, without our services, what a headache to try and decipher all this for the property manager. Yeah. And so this resident was so badly, wanted this accommodation. And you feel for that, of course, to a certain extent. Right, but at at what cost, right? Yeah. And so they. Suddenly have new documentation that they've sent [00:19:00] our way in the form of a letter with a signature scribbled at the bottom, and we start going about our normal process.

We let them know, okay, we wanna verify this directly with the health professional who wrote it.

Marven: Yep.

Victoria: And this is usually very easy to do.

Marven: Right.

Victoria: And so we. Let them know, okay, we, we do like to use this form. This is usually the quickest and easiest way to verify the needed information. This is not the only way to do it.

Yeah, we can absolutely speak with the health professional over the phone, fax, email, whatever they like. We don't wanna know specifics about the disability. We just need to confirm they wrote this letter. Yeah. And so resident seems compliant. And then next thing we know, we receive an email from a Gmail account and it's Dr.

So-and-so at gmail.com. Yep. With some documents attached. They've completed the forms verifying the letter, but we, we think, okay, Dr. So-and-so at gmail.com. This is kind of strange. It doesn't match. Anything that we can find on this health professional's website. Mm-hmm. So we called the [00:20:00] practice to see, Hey, we're just looking to confirm that Dr.

So-and-so completed these forms, and we find out that this resident has forged not only the letter Yep. And it it's three animals. So they forged three different letters. Yep. For three different animals, three different forms. Sure to verify those forged letters. And then they created that fake email address.

They were the doctor, impersonating the doctor? Yes. Mm-hmm.

Marven: Dr. Marvin. And Marvin has the ESAs? Yes. Yeah. Great.

Victoria: And so in speaking with the health professionals team Yeah. They let us know. No, he, he definitely didn't write this. He's actually been on vacation the last week, so he is, he's not seeing any patients right now.

Oh, really? Yeah. Yes. He's, he is been out town and definitely did not come from our practice and so. Unfortunately that's not his Gmail address. This is a very awkward situation now it's kind of a strain on that relationship. And so all of this is happening and without our services, this totally forced went through Sure.

Documentation could have been approved because I know a lot of property [00:21:00] managers just don't wanna deal with the headache. Yeah. They'll just approve everything that comes through. Mm-hmm. And so that was probably the craziest thing I've seen. We've seen other forgeries, but never have I ever seen.

Marven: That level three forged letters,

Victoria: three forged documents, and then a fake email address on top of that.

Noelle: So. Yeah. Usually that's pretty wild. Residents will, if, if they forged something, they might just send it to us themselves. Right, right. And hoping that we wouldn't need it from that verified contact information. Mm-hmm. But that's exactly why we are, we we're looking up these emails Yeah. And these phone numbers.

And when no results pop up, it is a red flag. Yeah. You know? Yeah. But luckily it was, it was pretty easy to, to catch this just by giving the. Actual practice, a phone call. And what's funny is this, this tenant was an actual patient of this provider. Ugh. And, and in other cases they've just chosen a random provider out there.

Yeah. And the provider has no idea who this is, but it was, I think out a another level of almost like awkwardness or, or weird. Um, that'd be a weird situation. Follow up therapy [00:22:00]

Marven: situation.

Noelle: Yeah. I feel like you kind of, not only. Did you know, was this all crime? But now you don't have that patient provide a relationship anymore.

It's, it's all strained. It's, yeah. Yeah. It's, it was, it was a weird

Victoria: one. You guys

Marven: get some interesting things. What's

Victoria: ironic about that situation too is that of all people, this resident probably could have gotten a letter fairly easily Sure. If they had just asked. Yeah. You know? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, there are so many people out there that have this need.

Marven: Yep.

Victoria: They know their animal assists with their disability, but maybe they're between providers. They don't really know who to go to, and that's how they fall into the trap of these websites. But this person probably could have just asked. Mm-hmm. But for one reason or another, thought that this would be easier.

Yeah. And then the lie caught up to them, unfortunately. Yeah. So

Marven: do you think, and this will be the last thing I, I touch on today, but do you think it's mostly targeted at like. When I go onto Facebook and Instagram, it's targeted me and I'm in my young twenties. Do you guys get a lot of emotional support animal letters from people who are [00:23:00] older or is it kind of across the board?

It's pretty equal. Everybody just thinks this is the way to get it. Do you see that being more of something being taken advantage of by people who, who may not know how to actually get the process done? Or is it something that people are buying to avoid pet fees and pet rent? Because we, on our side of things, it seems like.

A lot of property management thinks, and I, and I could agree too in some ways that it's usually purchased by somebody to get out of pet fees and pet rent, or I'm allowed to bring my dog who's a commonly a restricted breed onto the property. There's a ton of reasons, but that seems to be a majority of what, what the narrative is across the industry is that it's used to avoid these fees.

Do you guys see that more often or not? Or is it truly something where residents and applicants think this is the actual way? To, to attain an emotional support animal. Do you guys ever get that feedback?

Noelle: I mean, it it, it's hard to tell. Yeah, because most residents, when we do. Contact them about the documentation.

Some will come forward. And when we're having that conversation, their, [00:24:00] their main concern is that, that they, they can't afford to bring the, bring their animal on the property or that it is a restricted breed. And you can tell that that's at the forefront of their mind.

Victoria: Mm-hmm.

Noelle: But luckily there are a lot of these people who are able to then go and get a letter from their, their doctor provider, their doctor, who they already had.

They're able to get the accommodation and we just needed to get the correct liable documentation on file. Mm-hmm. But when you see all of the advertising for these sites, yeah, it's completely, completely focused on stop paying pet fees and stop being subject to restrictions. No more breed restrictions, all of those sorts of things.

And so with. These, these sites gaining so much popularity. Of course you have to wonder if it's just all these people who, who see these, see the ads. Yeah. Eye catching ads that are like, oh, I don't wanna, I don't pay, pay pet fees, pay so sure. Let me just get this ESA letter. And may not really truly realize what they're doing and kind of the weight of the situation.

Yep. Mm-hmm. But I think it's also interesting when, when [00:25:00] tenants are pretty upfront, when we do ask them Sure. How they obtain their documentation. I feel that. Sometimes the people who are the most upfront and are say, oh yeah, I did get it from that website, are usually the ones who are, don't realize it's a, it's a bad thing, not Yeah.

And it's not the reliable way to go, whereas Right. Most residents, when we contact 'em about the letter Right, they're, they're not going to be super forthcoming about, about which website it was. Yeah. And they're definitely more likely to put those reserved walls up and not, and not be completely honest about what the process really did truly look like.

And so in those cases, you do have to wonder if.

Marven: They bought on purpose. They, they knew it

Noelle: was unreliable, but you never truly know the, the, the real meaning of why someone did that. I don't know if you

Victoria: wanna add anything. Yeah, I think it's a mix for sure. I think it's, it's definitely a mix and not only are there two camps of people, but some know exactly what they're doing is wrong and some are truly just thinking they're doing the right thing.

I think there's maybe even some people who in

Marven: between

Victoria: fall into both categories a little bit because the. The advertising [00:26:00] is so compelling, right? It's, I mean, it's the first thing that you see, even if you're just trying to find actual Yep. Legitimate resources and information. Totally. You are just bombarded with all these ads, so you definitely feel for the people who are truly looking for a legitimate way.

Right. You definitely. So I think it's a mix, and that's also not to say that someone who could be going on one of these websites. They may actually have a legitimate disability related need. Mm-hmm. And they just don't know. They could ask their health professional.

Marven: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a huge way to, to kind of explain what we do.

Mm-hmm. I think the misconception is, is we're not, we're not here to, to downplay the, the validity of people needing emotional support, animals and service animals. Mm-hmm. I think we all can agree that it's something that's been taken advantage of in multiple industries. Mm-hmm. And it would be unfortunate to see a.

A time where there are no, there's no way to bring your support animal everywhere you go. There's no way to bring your emotional support animal into your housing that you need, right? Mm-hmm. [00:27:00] Uh, so I think it's just really trying to be advocates for the legitimacy in the process and what, what actually has been put into place.

'cause there's multiple times I'll go through the comments on those threads and you kind of see what people are saying is like, I've. Struggled with X, Y, and Z my whole entire life. Mm-hmm. This is not the way to go about it. And they're almost advocating for the legitimacy and the process and to walk through that actual process.

So definitely it's cool to hear from you guys. Thank you guys for taking the time today. Thank you. And it's, it's been a pleasure of mine to kinda learn a little bit more about what we're doing and I think it's a pleasure for everybody else listening in to kind see what we do, what we, not what we do on the day to day, but what you guys do on the day to day.

So thank you guys so much for taking the time. Thanks so much for watching Beyond the Lease Podcast. We look forward to seeing you guys on the next episode.